Could you tell us about the Himkok concept?

Paul Voza: Himkok is the translation of Moonshine in Norwegian. The venue was founded almost ten years ago – the anniversary is April 13 – by Erk Potur. Erk has been active in Norway’s cocktail and pub scene for over 20 years. One of the biggest venues he opened before Himkok was Crowbar. It was basically the same concept, but for a brewery: they produce their own beer, and we produce our own spirits: gin, vodka, and aquavit. However, cocktails let you push the idea even further—it's more delicate, more complete.

Himkok includes three bars within it: the bar/distillery, with table service, high-end or Michelin-type service, if you will. It’s great for business or romantic dates, celebrating a special event, or just for cocktail lovers. This bar is open every day.

Then, on the second floor, there is the High-Volume bar. We only serve crowd-pleasers there, like Espresso Martini, Whisky Sour, Moscow Mule, Irish Coffee, etc. We can accommodate groups of 25–30 people. The atmosphere is more festive, with guests who want a cocktail served in less than a minute—something we manage to do. Finally, in summer, we open our cider bar, where we only serve local ciders. It’s a relaxed atmosphere. You can even smoke a cigar there.

In fact, Himkok, in our view, is a bar for everyone, and that’s reflected in the diversity of what we offer.

Does one of your two activities—bar or distillery—take precedence over the other? How do you define yourselves?

Himkok is a bar, but we’re in an expansion phase. In other words, yes, we’re also a distillery. We produce about 10,000 liters of spirits per year, both for ourselves and for other bars, as well as for our RTD cans.

The size of our distillery—less than 5 m2—is, however, a constraint. Norwegian alcohol sales legislation is another.

So there’s a state monopoly on alcohol sales in Norway?

Exactly, similar to Canada, for instance. It’s also difficult for us to produce at Himkok because the work is very manual: filling the bottles, putting on labels. It’s not optimal, and there isn’t as much profit to make if we increase volumes. That’s why we’re currently looking for a solution to increase our production capacity.

Are you going to move the distillery located in Himkok?

No, it will remain there, but it will serve as a “pilot” distillery. We’ll continue producing at Himkok, but for larger volumes, we’re exploring various development options. Then we could better supply the local market, to start with. And, if all goes well, consider exporting. But we’d have to see how partnerships are organized, because to succeed abroad, you really have to have a presence on site.

Additionally, we’re building a distillery in the north of the country to produce whisky. If you look at our location and consider climate change, it makes sense. We also have extremely pure water, which can really enhance the product. Water is very important; we even notice it in our cocktails. When we do guest shifts abroad, we bring our cocktails with Norwegian water, and the difference is striking. It’s mineral and very pure, even if it’s tap water.

We use the same water because of how effectively it’s treated. It’s a genuine asset.

Are the bar and distillery teams separate?

In the distillery, we have a certified Head Distiller who doesn’t work behind the bar. However, our bartenders always have the option to work with him, to develop new recipes, or to produce distillates for cocktails.

Also, our guests at the bar give us their feedback, which can influence the distillery. For example, one of the first versions of our gin was created this way, based on the feedback bartenders received from guests, what they’d like to see more of in the gin. In fact, it’s a constant back and forth. That’s how our gin was developed. There’s a real symbiosis between the distillery and the bar.

You produce gin, vodka, and aquavit. Do you only have one version of each spirit?

Himkok offers different gins: a dry, an Old Tom… We also designed a Seaweed Gin. Same goes for aquavit: an autumn version and our basic aquavit.

We also aged our aquavit in vermouth casks. With Linie (note: Norwegian brand), we started a collaboration, and they aged our aquavit at sea for six months. Meanwhile, we only have one vodka reference, which we don’t produce in large volume, because our gins are our best sellers.

Don’t you sell your spirits outside the bar?

We do, but not in large volumes. There are classes at Himkok, and customers can buy directly. They place the order with us, but they have to pick up the bottle in the State-controlled store. You can also find our aquavit and special editions—like the one aged in vermouth casks—in small quantities at certain stores. Just a reminder that the state monopoly applies above 4.7% ABV.

You feature a highly conceptual cocktail menu. What made you decide on this approach? I read that you thought your current menu, created with young musicians, was very useful for introducing you to a new generation.

Exactly. That’s the idea. Himkok will turn ten. The customers who used to come to the bar two or three times a week—about five years ago—are now settled down with families. But in Norway, the legislation is very strict: we don’t have the right to advertise alcohol, talk about it, or post pictures of cocktails. Basically, we can’t communicate! But through these conceptual menus—featuring art, photography, museums, music, and fashion—we can still promote ourselves.

With the current menu, Beats & Sips, we can connect with influential personalities, and that shows at the bar. So it’s an asset. Furthermore, in doing so, we meet figures outside of our industry, which is probably the most important thing: building more contacts, offering more collaborations.

Practically speaking, how was this Beats & Sips menu put together?

Thanks to our previous menu, someone who had worked with Himkok told us, “I have an idea for your next menu—we’re going to do music.” She had connections at Sony Music—which is the largest record label in Norway—and that led to eight artists who interpreted our 13 cocktails in a musical version. Then, in the songs, we asked if they could mention brand names like Patron or Bacardi. That way, everyone benefits, and these artists range from 21 to 30 years old, which is exactly the age bracket we want to attract. None of these artists had ever been to Himkok before! Since they have large followings, it’s had an impact on the age of our clientele.

After that, offering very good cocktails is something we can do without difficulty. Today, Himkok has become much more than a bar. It’s 10% cocktails and 90% what we build around them.

How many menus do you offer each year? One per season?

No, it’s one menu a year, 13 cocktails, and all the cocktails must keep for at least one year—“vacuum bag style.”

Given that, how do you address seasonality?

In my opinion, focusing on seasonality doesn’t really make sense. There’s more waste than when you process ingredients. It can work for a restaurant, but for the bar, we prefer to use products that have already been processed. We work a lot with local players who produce excellent fruit wines, and we buy ingredients that have been frozen at peak ripeness. When they thaw, combined with the alcohol, they provide really great flavors.

Our cocktails have a shelf life of at least a year, so we don’t have waste. Some bartenders make syrups every week and end up tossing a lot of what they’ve made if it doesn’t sell. As a result, there’s all sorts of waste (raw materials, electricity…). It’s good to highlight this kind of practice, but if you don’t sell it all, it’s pointless. And constantly updating the menu is expensive, so that doesn’t make sense for us either. For us at Himkok, the most important thing is consistency. When a customer tastes a cocktail in January, it should taste the same if they come back in June. That’s really important. Finally, for this kind of practice, you need staff. In Norway, salaries are very high. Economically, it’s not feasible.

On that note, how big is the bar team?

There are 13 of us. Thursday, Friday, Saturday, when the entire bar is open, Himkok can accommodate 450 people. Often, when we explain how many staff members we have to handle that number of customers, people don’t understand how we manage it. But it’s because we’re very well organized. Everyone knows what they need to do.

What is the breakdown between Norwegians and other nationalities on your team?

The team includes four Norwegians and as many Italians. We also have two French—myself included—one Swede, and one Slovakian, Maroš Dzurus, our bar manager. We communicate in English among ourselves; it’s very important to avoid anyone feeling excluded. I’ll add that if someone worked in another bar that we already know, normally we don’t hire them. The Oslo industry is very small, and everyone knows each other. We prefer to train someone from scratch or hire foreigners.

Do you have a signature cocktail or one that remains permanently on the menu?

Yes, every year, we keep one cocktail from the previous menu and add it to the current year’s menu.

How would you describe Norway’s drink culture?

Things have changed. Right now, we’re doing fine; we have a good bar with a solid reputation. Our numbers have dropped, but that’s normal because inflation and the economic situation aren’t really helping. People drink less than before; they go out earlier and come home earlier. It’s nice for our team, because previously, the bar was open every day from 5 p.m. to 3 a.m., and after Covid, we changed our hours again. Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, we open at 5 p.m. and close at midnight, which makes a difference. Wednesday, we stay open until 1 a.m., and Thursday, Friday, Saturday, from 5 p.m. to 3 a.m. But there are fewer and fewer customers late at night. The holiday season is our peak period because there are all the company Christmas gatherings, etc. But this year, in bars, restaurants, and shops everywhere, lots of places are down 25% or 30% in sales. We limited our decrease to about 15%. That’s due to tough inflation and our weak currency, the Norwegian krone. Sure, Norway is a petroleum-producing country with hedge funds, but the economic situation isn’t exactly rosy.

Is there a law, like in Sweden, requiring you to serve food with alcohol?

No, not in Norway. Fortunately. Also, here, pairing dishes with cocktails doesn’t really match. Norwegians go to restaurants and drink wine or beer. Cocktails are a separate activity.

Speaking of specifics, let’s talk about aquavit. Is there a debate about its origin, like pisco?

All Scandinavian countries have their different types of aquavit. Norwegian aquavit highlights caraway and must be aged in Sherry Casks. There are white versions, but they can’t be considered Norwegian aquavit. It has to be aged. And it must be 100% made from Norwegian potatoes, whereas in Denmark and Sweden, they use a grain alcohol, and the notes of fennel or dill are more prominent.

Sometimes aquavit experiences a renewed interest, then it goes back down; it’s up and down. Often, Norwegians only drink aquavit on festive occasions. It’s not that they don’t like it, but each time they mention it, it’s associated with a family gathering or a wedding that ends in a terrible hangover. We try to change that image in our own small way, especially by re-educating the younger generation who see it as a drink for “old people.” Right now, the most consumed spirit in Norway is definitely gin. Whisky is fairly common, rum less so. As for tequila and mezcal, those categories are taking off.

Is it an easy spirit to use in cocktails?

Personally, I love aquavit. It’s very versatile. An aquavit can easily replace a rum or a whisky. Unaged aquavit shares the same DNA as a gin, with caraway instead of juniper. It’s an excellent product. Thanks to Linie, we toured Denmark, France, and New York to demonstrate aquavit’s versatility. With house cocktails based on gin, rum, or whisky, we replaced everything with aquavit. It works very well. For example, Linie aged in Madeira casks tastes similar to a rum.

At Himkok, it’s a spirit we always highlight. For example, we make our Paloma with aquavit instead of tequila or mezcal, and customers love it. Between the cans and our KeyKeg (note: a brand of high-tech recyclable PET container guaranteeing the freshness of the liquid), I think we’ve already produced 100,000 liters of this cocktail.

On that note, why did you decide to move into the RTD can market?

Himkok is a bar with recognized expertise in the liquid domain, and we began exploring RTDs about five years ago. Personally, I can say I really know all the "Flavor Houses" labs in Europe. We managed to create RTDs from scratch; they aren’t purchased recipes.

Our bar is well-known for our draft cocktails, in KeyKeg. But that had to change because it was no longer sustainable: at one point, we were pressing 200 liters of lemon juice, 250 liters of lime juice. So we changed the recipes to make it more viable, both financially and ecologically. Now, we have no waste because everything is already processed. We changed the way we made our KeyKeg. We started a partnership with a brewery, and they loved our product. So we started working together, and we concluded we had to think bigger, entering the 4.7 ABV market (note: 4.7% vol.) because, at that alcohol content, cans can be sold anywhere, not just in State stores.

You factored in alcohol content based on distribution methods in Norway?

We were the first to incorporate that element into our thinking: why go to State stores? Alcohol taxes are very high. It’s pointless. You pick 4.7% ABV, which corresponds to the beer market.

Our three products are very successful: Oslo Mule—a nod to the Moscow Mule—Oslo Paloma with our own aquavit, and also a kind of RTD Energy Drink called Snake Bite, with a pear flavor and the components of a Red Bull. We’re distributed in 492 stores throughout the country, and one of our biggest customers is the airline Norwegian. They sell our cans onboard on flights of at least 1h30—in shorter flights, passengers don’t buy. Of the selected RTDs, it’s the top seller.

Are you tempted to export these RTDs?

We’re thinking about it. We can easily produce 100,000 liters or 200,000 liters. But we’re in no rush, because one mistake and it’s all over. There’s no urgency.

How is the cocktail scene in Oslo doing at the moment?

Like everywhere, some venues open and others close. In Norway, there are lots of beer and wine bars, and maybe three noteworthy cocktail bars right now, among them Ekspedisjonshallen in the Sommerro hotel in Oslo, which was built about two years ago. But overall, it’s fairly standard.

I saw there’s a Cocktail Bars Court, like Food Courts?

Honestly, it’s an interesting concept. But this is still Norway, Oslo—it’s not New York or Paris. It’s a city of 700,000 inhabitants, maybe 50,000 of whom go out. So to fill such a place, given the competition… Plus, it’s quite large.

They’d need tourists…

Yes, exactly. That’s why we’re thrilled about the recognition in the 50 Best Bars and Top 500 Bars rankings. When people in the industry visit us, they realize the challenges and what it means for us not to be located in a highly visited country. It still makes a big difference.

What about the restaurant scene?

The restaurant scene is alright. It’s evolving. Again, places open and close. In Norway, in Oslo, there are a lot of restaurants, but afterward, only around twenty are really active. It’s a tough business: you have to control costs, raw materials. In Norway, you know, there’s the gorgeous Michelin-starred restaurant—like Maaemo—but it’s far from accessible to everyone, and then you’ve got pizza, kebabs, or McDonald’s, and nothing in between. Restaurants with lunch menus including starter, main, dessert at around 25 euros, for example, don’t exist. I know many people who tried to open French-style bistros or rotisseries, and it never worked out.

What is the history of the cocktail in Norway? Are there any historic bars like Harry’s Bar in Paris?

In my view, cocktails here started about 10 or 15 years ago. Himkok was among the first to open back then. Before that, the bar scene was mostly about beer or aquavit establishments.

Himkok will celebrate its 10th anniversary this year. In your opinion, what’s the secret for longevity? Should you follow trends?

Listening to the consumer is essential. “The consumer gets what he wants” in the end. In our menu of 13 cocktails, nine are fairly developed, but we don’t delve into all the technical details because it will only interest enthusiasts. Most customers come to a bar to have a good time, have fun. And, with any luck, taste good things. So all our cocktails are classics with a twist. Except for the Vodka Energy Red Bull, which sells the most. It’s been our best seller for three years.

Is that the one you also offer as an RTD?

The first version of that cocktail is available in RTD, and we offer two other versions at the bar. Right now, that’s the kind of drink customers are looking for: low ABV, caffeinated, etc. What we also do very well is play with childhood memories.

Like the cocktail evoking carrot cake?

Exactly. We rely on personal memories. And I think that’s very important. I hear so many bartenders saying they’re going to create a new concept, a new cocktail, and every time, it’s over the top, there are too many flavors going in all directions… The customers don’t understand, they’re lost, so it doesn’t work. It’s best to keep it simple, with a good flavor, and most importantly, great hospitality.

Finally, let’s talk a bit about your background. How did you end up in the bar world?

I’m Franco-Mexican. I’ve lived in Mexico City, Chicago, and Montreal, where I studied at HEC in marketing and finance. I met my girlfriend in Japan during my exchange program, and I moved to Norway for her. The beginning was difficult for me because finding a job in marketing when you don’t speak the local language… So I started my own short-term apartment rental business in the heart of Oslo with a Norwegian partner. Eventually, someone bought us out entirely. I should mention that my family works in the food industry in Mexico, and I always wanted to work in that sector. That’s why I later worked with a Michelin-starred chef for two years in the kitchen. We had an external consulting assignment because the kitchen at Himkok wasn’t running very well. During that period, the person in charge of prep left, and I took over. That was eight years ago, and everything has changed since then.

Is your R&D focused only on the bar or also on the distillery? Do you use the Rotavap a lot?

Yes, we work with the Rotavap, and also centrifuges. However, in my view, a Rotavap is unnecessary. It’s not for everyone. Many people buy one without really knowing how to use it. We have two Rotavaps, and when we create menus, we decide to use it for one or two elements only. Plus, Himkok needs large production volumes, so we tend to rely more on the distillery.

We clarify a lot because it extends the life of our products, and our most important tool is the centrifuge. I tell everyone: “It’s the most important tool in a bar!” But I know many other people who have worked in the industry for a long time without all these tools and still make great cocktails. Nevertheless, for us in Norway, without access to many raw ingredients and products, we use these machines to extract different flavors. We do a lot of processing. However, if we lived in Colombia or Mexico, we wouldn’t need them.

To move into that role, you needed some knowledge of the field, right?

As I mentioned, I’ve been around the food industry since childhood. I had a sense of how it works. Moreover, I really love to cook. And I work very closely with Maroš, who’s been in the industry for 20 years. We work in real synergy. Then you learn from books, by experimenting, or even by listening to chefs. There’s so much information that, in the end, it becomes easy.

It’s a great journey and a wonderful story. I sincerely think we’re strong and we aim to continue growing. Himkok is now more than a bar; it’s become a brand.

Who knows, maybe you’ll open a second Himkok in another country and we’ll do another interview (laughs)?

Ah, you never know. You never know…

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